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 Double Sense of Make Stats and Melancholyc in Classics 
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Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:54 pm
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Location: Argentina
This Post is Maded with all respect to New and Old Members Of Forum

Well first of all i want to say if some Chief feel that this post have to be erased please do.

I see a double sense in the way to do stats , must notable in the strikers from old times and contemporary times.

I make one example
CR7 Vs Gerd Muller

Gerd have 99 in ATK he is one of the most top scorers of all times. So he deserve that level ? Yes sure , is a goalpoacher a cheaser of area , a inteligence positonal striker ok all well to this point.

Ok CR7 the now days machine of do goals , he can easy have red numbers in ATK but why , first is a goal poacher a plyer with great fitness , great positional sense , he is not a player he use godless dribbling skills like messi to do goals so is he only weapon to do goals.

Here comes the problem here say thay cristiano dont deserved that because he only do to little teams or because dont agree with him , but a question the bomber do only goals to the greats teams of Ligue of West Germany and in Europe Cup ,no he is insane score numbers are equal to do a little teams of Europe and Germany so, Gerd deserved for be a old player ?

How can whe fix that double sense ideas or someone can do a good reason to do that.

PD: For the little Scandals guys i only put gerd for example because he is one of the top scorers of football nothing against to german players

Sun Aug 07, 2016 4:40 pm
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Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:51 pm
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I think this is just a paranoia, all of us work with the same "standards" for every player, and compare them by what we see.

For example, you compare Cristiano Ronaldo vs Müller in ATT and you can compare them watching matches and you'll understand that Müller is by far the best player ever in that aspect, but if you compare Cristiano Ronaldo against Ronaldo Nazário, Zamorano, Maradona, Raúl, Shevchenko, Hugo Sánchez, Matthias Sindelar, Cantona, Cruyff, Zico, George Best.. Everyone are under him in terms of ATT

The thing is, in modern football are very good players (offensive and defensive) but they play only in the richests teams, what it means? only compete in UCL and a couple of matches in the leagues (like Madrid-Barcelona or Borussia-Bayern). In old football every team had their stars, thats why players like Messi or Cristiano Ronaldo score +35 or +40 goals per season, because every week they play against defenders who aren't the bests.

For example, Cristiano Ronaldo in La Liga, who are the Top defenders who play against him? Puyol (when he played), Godín, Mascherano and Piqué... Or Messi against Ramos, Pepe, Godín and Carvalho when he played in Madrid, the others are just normal players, they can be good but not at the same level of the others (I'm talking about Gurpegui, Íñigo Martínez, Coke, Rami, Otamendi when he was in Valencia...)

If you compare the defenders who played against Shevchenko for example, every week in the league... Fabio Cannavaro, Bonera, Paolo Cannavaro, Stam, Mihalovic, Nesta, Couto, Paolo Montero, Tudor, Thuram, Cafú, Aldair, Panucci, Walter Samuel, Iván Córdoba, Javier Zanetti or Burdisso (I won't count Milan's defenders because Shevchenko played for them :lol: , but... Here I'm talking about Juventus, Roma, Lazio... And I didn't mention players from that Parma at first years of the millenium or even the Livorno of 04-07)

Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:22 pm
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Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:54 pm
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Location: Argentina
Yeah i understand your point , that is sad , maybe in past years the strongs leagues compite more , but like all times , you said cannavaro , nesta , gattuso , maldini , Thuram , but i think thar are equal to modern times , Atalanta or Udinese or Reggina have good defenders back them :? ? .

Or even in Dream Team Era or Galacticos eras , Getafe or Rayo or Levante or Espanyol have top defenders no they not have.

Maybe for the league of your country the others teams have their big guns like Depor , Valencia , Mallorca , Zaragoza ect.

But its almost the same.

If count the goals of Pele the Called 1000 goals (I dont believe much) he do to teams like Chapacoense , Paranaense , Itauano , Paulistano , Rigueria , Mato Grosso , Botafogo of SP , teams that was Amateurs and now not exist anymore.

Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:34 pm
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Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:34 pm
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Higuain just scored 36 goals in serie A. Shevchenko never scored more than 24, Trezeguet too, Vieri too, Inzaghi too... and he is largely inferior compared to all these beasts. I could also tell some other "minor :lol: " name: Del Piero, Totti, Batistuta, Montella, Adriano, Chiesa... I could name all the greatest attackers of the last decades.
Higuain just scored 36 goals in a season only because defenders in Italy are nowadays harsh. They are just tall men. I'm not thinking about Frosinone's or Capri's defenders, I'm also talking about Inter, Milan, Roma, Fiorentina, Lazio defenders. Do you want some name?
Milan: the only one good is Romagnoli but he's very young, then there are/were: Mexes, Zapata, Alex, Abate (captain!!!)... I won't go over, it's painful.
Inter: Miranda ok, but then? Murillo? Juan Jesus? Nagatomo? D'Ambrosio? Santon? Who are those people?
Roma: ok Manolas, in the last years then played with: Torosidis (???), Rudiger, Piris, Castan (he was good but too many and big health problems)...
Lazio: I just could not even name them...

I could say there are... 10 good CBs in Serie A nowadays: Barzagli, Bonucci, Chiellini, Benatia, Miranda, Manolas, Rugani and Romagnoli (even if very young), Gonzalo Rodriguez... and I don't know who else...
10/15 years ago, all the teams had 3/4 good CBs: think about Milan 10 years ago and now. From Cafu-Nesta-Stam-Maldini to Abate-Romagnoli-Zapata-Antonelli :lol: I laugh, but I should cry... Inter passed from players like Samuel, Zanetti etc to Ranocchia (captain!!!). And so on.

This is just an example. I return to Higuain, and I repeat: 10 years ago he would have never scored 36 goals. Have you seen the two games of Napoli vs Frosinone last season? He scored I think 6 or 7 goals. Go to look at the goals. Embarassing defenders. Simply embarassing.
And even if he would have scored 80 goals like Cristiano or Messi, I would have never given him a red value.

The problem is that there is a lack of talent, at least in Italy. Young CB-players are not playing anymore against Totti, Del Piero, Baggio and other talented guys, they are playing against Niang and Pavoletti. What happens, is that there is no need to have good CBs or good defenders in general, because a team with a nice "defensive tactics" could easily stop most of the players of nowadays. And on the opposite, there is the lack of talent also in the young CF and SS, because most of the players are not playing anymore against Nesta and Maldini, but against Zapata and Rudiger. So, how could CBs and CFs improve?

Tue Aug 09, 2016 5:07 pm
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Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:54 pm
Posts: 1398
Location: Argentina
Yeah Mate , but are you talking about serie A , And Italy is long time bad from 2012 , shit players , is the cementery of Elephants of Europe , i hope milan Recover his place like the team that was.

Also about others you thinking That spanish league is not strong , them why Win so much UCL , the bad moments of Greatness of Inter, Milan , Man U , Liverpool dont have any relevance with domestic league level or UCL match Levels , CR7 and Messi are the top guys in Goal Scorer of UCL list.

You mate said a doble sense argument in Henry set saying that he was not so good because in france he play against Nationals teams of Low Level , so what that wasent the good times , when the teams have his same stars , is better is you have one good Theory not only apply for the players that like most to one , and because is ¨Old¨ and deserved that.

Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:07 pm
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