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Personal Guide for Stats Conversion http://pesmitidelcalcio.com/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=12520 |
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Author: | Interista93 [ Fri Dec 10, 2021 9:07 pm ] |
Post subject: | Personal Guide for Stats Conversion |
The topic has been brought on for a while. Therefore, I open a thread to post some practical examples since making stats for all the sets would take an immense amount of time. The sets are based off KONAMI originals. More details are included at the end of each post. I hope this helps. GOALKEEPERS PES 2011 to PES 2013 Spoiler: show PES 2014 and PES 2015 Spoiler: show PES 2016 to PES 2019 Spoiler: show PES 2020 and PES 2021 Spoiler: show I came to conclusions after analysing a fair number of goalkeepers from various PES games. ● The Ball Winning attribute introduced in PES 2014 doesn't work like the old Response for goalkeepers. It's rarely high for goalkeepers and it's usually lower than Defensive Prowess. The highest Ball Winning a goalkeeper has in PES 2014 is 46. Things changed in PES 2015 as many goalkeepers have a high value, although most of them seem random and probably a mistake by KONAMI. In Pes 2016 though over 1300 goalkeepers have a value between 40 and 60, more than 100 have it between 61 and 78, and only Manuel Neuer has 89. The ability is more balanced since PES 2017 as the maximum is 74 and only twelve, including Neuer, have it in PES 2017. However, I pretty much believe that most goalkeepers were mistakenly given a high value. Neuer has 41 in PES 2018 and 2019, 51 in PES 2020, 52 in PES 2021, while many random goalkeepers still have a high value (max 74 until PES 2020, 71 in PES 2021). In conclusion, I'd always rate Defensive Awareness higher than Ball Winning regardless of what Ball Winning value you decide to give a goalkeeper. ● The Goalkeeping and Saving attributes introduced in PES 2014 replaced the old Response and Goalkeeping Skills attributes respectively. ● The Body Control/Balance attribute introduced in PES 2017 helps a player maintaining the balance while avoiding tackles. Oddly enough, KONAMI gave higher values to random goalkeepers in comparison to the likes of Neuer and Ederson who are way more technically gifted. In my opinion, only goalkeepers like them deserve a Body Control/Balance value in the 70 area but not higher than 74. ● KONAMI introduced more key attributes for goalkeepers in PES 2016. - Goalkeeping/GK Awareness is the keeper's ability to judge the situation and act in accordance. It can be compared to the old Defence. - GK Catching is the keeper's ability to catch shots, even powerful ones. It can compared to the old Goalkeeping Skills. - GK Reflexes determines how quickly a goalkeeper reacts. It can easily be compared to the old Response. - GK Clearing is a more specific stat. It indicates how good a goalkeeper is at pushing the ball away to safe areas. Its meaning is between GK Awareness and GK Catching, although it seems closer to the latter. The value can be an average of Defence and Goalkeeping Skills unless a goalkeeper was specifically good or bad at clearing. - Coverage/GK Reach determines how much goal the goalkeeper is able to cover when he reacts. Its meaning is between GK Awareness and GK Reflexes, although it seems closer to GK Awareness. The value can be an average of Defence and Response unless the goalkeeper was specifically good or bad at covering his goal. ● The Attack attribute that became Attacking Prowess in PES 2014 and Offensive Awareness in PES 2020 originally could go below 40 but no real goalkeeper had a value lower than 30. Since 40 became the minimum value, this attribute had to be adjusted. Considering only real goalkeepers, the equivalences are as following: 30 -> 40-41 31 -> 42-43 32-33 -> 44-45 34-35 -> 46 36-37 -> 47-48 38-44 -> 49 45-49 -> 50 50-51 -> 51-52 ● In general, the attributes Dribbling Accuracy, Short Pass Accuracy, Long Pass Accuracy, Shot Accuracy, Free Kick Accuracy and Swerve didn't get changes. No real goalkeeper used to have a value lower than 40 for any of these attributes and the minimum was rarely below 44. Therefore, KONAMI seemingly kept the same values in more recent games as well. Only certain more or less famous goalkeepers received boosts in these attributes, mostly since PES 2020. ● The Heading attribute received a huge boost for goalkeepers, in some cases from PES 2015, otherwise from more recent games. In general, the boost is of about 15-20 points. ● The Technique/Ball Control attribute seems generally much higher for goalkeepers since PES 2015. Especially goalkeepers who had a value below 50 in old gen games often received a boost of at least 10 points in new games. The goalkeepers who used to have 50 or more either kept the same value or got a very small boost. |
Author: | Interista93 [ Fri Dec 10, 2021 9:08 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Personal Guide for Stats Conversion |
DEFENDERS PES 2011 to PES 2013 Spoiler: show PES 2014 and PES 2015 Spoiler: show PES 2016 to PES 2019 Spoiler: show PES 2020 and PES 2021 Spoiler: show ● I chose Cafu as example. His stats underwent several changes every few years. What's important to notice though is the comparison between the Defence/Response and Defensive Prowess/Ball Winning combos. In old gen games, it wasn't too rare for a side back to have the attributes Defence and Response to differ by 10 or more points with the latter attribute usually being the higher. Since the introduction of the Ball Winning attribute, it became common for KONAMI to make Defensive Awareness and Ball Winning values as close as possible in many (if not most) sets. ● The Ball Winning attribute works like the old Response for defensive players as both attributes refer to how quickly a player reacts when trying to win the ball. ● One of the few Cafu attributes that kept the same value is the original Agility. This attribute was replaced by Explosive Power in PES 2014 while the Acceleration attribute was removed. What's odd is the fact that Acceleration was introduced back in PES 2020 as replacement for Explosive Power, although the original attributes Acceleration and Agility worked differently. ● The Body Balance attribute introduced in PES 2017 should be higher for skilled and agile dribblers, even more when the player lacks physical strength. ● The Aggression attribute introduced in PES 2020 works a lot differently from the original one that was removed in PES 2012. The original one was related to the attack while the new version is a defensive attribute. |
Author: | Interista93 [ Fri Dec 10, 2021 9:09 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Personal Guide for Stats Conversion |
DEFENSIVE/CENTRAL MIDFIELDERS PES 2011 to PES 2013 Spoiler: show PES 2014 and PES 2015 Spoiler: show PES 2016 to PES 2019 Spoiler: show PES 2020 and PES 2021 Spoiler: show ● The DMF and CMF positions in new games are those that differ the least in comparison to the old gen games. In my opinion, most old gen sets can be applied in almost their entirety to new games. Of course, the Defensive Awareness/Ball Winning combo is something that needs attention. Here are some examples: Luka Modrić: PES 2013 65/80 - PES 2014 71/57 - PES 2015 65/68 - PES 2019 72/82 - PES 2021 64/67 Sergio Busquets: PES 2013 74/83 - PES 2014 85/72 - PES 2016 90/87 - PES 2018 86/87 - PES 2021 85/88 Marco Verratti: PES 2013 76/82 - PES 2014 78/62 - PES 2015 75/71 - PES 2016 77/82 - PES 2020 77/83 Javi Martínez: PES 2013 77/81 - PES 2014 80/74 - PES 2015 85/74 - PES 2016 85/83 - PES 2020 89/84 Kevin Strootman: PES 2013 70/76 - PES 2014 72/67 - PES 2016 74/79 - PES 2019 82/83 - PES 2021 78/77 In general, it's not rare to have defensive or central midfielder with Response higher or much higher than Defence in old gen games. For some reason, it seems to be the opposite in PES 2014 where Defensive Prowess can be a lot higher than Ball Winning. Generally, the two attributes are more balanced since PES 2015, although there are exceptions. |
Author: | Interista93 [ Fri Dec 10, 2021 9:09 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Personal Guide for Stats Conversion |
SIDE/ATTACKING MIDFIELDERS PES 2011 to PES 2013 Spoiler: show PES 2014 and PES 2015 Spoiler: show PES 2016 to PES 2019 Spoiler: show PES 2020 and PES 2021 Spoiler: show ● The SMF and AMF positions are also among those that differ the least in new games in comparison to the old gen versions. Here as well, the Defensive Awareness/Ball Winning combo seems troublesome. ● In PES 2014, it's rare for a SMF or AMF with Defensive Awareness below 50 to have a much higher Ball Winning. The difference is always lower than 10 points. In PES 2015, there are several SMF or AMF with Ball Winning quite higher than Defensive Awareness. This gap is even higher for some players since PES 2016. Anyway, it looks quite odd to me that a player with poor Defensive Awareness, so no interest in defensive duties, should have mid/high Ball Winning. That said, I believe that the gap in the values of these two stats for these two positions depends on the player and the game, and here are some practical examples: David Silva: PES 2011 50/80 - PES 2014 58/46 - PES 2015 44/44 - PES 2016 44/62 - PES 2018 53/59 - PES 2020 62/59 Ivan Rakitić: PES 2012 58/77 - PES 2014 68/50 - PES 2015 63/60 - PES 2016 61/69 - PES 2018 69/72 - PES 2020 69/74 Samir Nasri: PES 2011 44/76 - PES 2012 54/77 - PES 2015 61/53 - PES 2017 61/62 - PES 2018 55/59 - PES 2020 52/54 Nicolás Gaitán: PES 2011 40/72 - PES 2012 46/85 - PES 2014 57/45 - PES 2017 60/55 - PES 2019 53/52 - PES 2020 49/50 |
Author: | Interista93 [ Fri Dec 10, 2021 9:10 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Personal Guide for Stats Conversion |
FORWARDS PES 2011 to PES 2013 Spoiler: show PES 2014 and PES 2015 Spoiler: show PES 2016 to PES 2019 Spoiler: show PES 2020 and PES 2021 Spoiler: show ● The Defensive Prowess stat for strikers is tricky. It doesn't seem that there's a specific pattern for the conversion. Ball Winning should, in my opinion, have a value balanced with the Defensive Prowess. Analyzing all attacking positions game by game since the introduction of the new stats: - PES 2014 doesn't have many real players with a very low value and the lowest is 42 except for one CF who has 40. Most players for each position have at least 50. The highest value for attacking positions is 69, although a small selection of players reaches 60. - The following versions of the game PES 2015 and PES 2016 have definitely more players who can have the lowest value, especially regarding the CF position. There's also a small selection of players who have 70 or higher, with the highest value being 77 in PES 2015 and 2016, 75 in PES 2017 and PES 2018, 73 in PES 2019 and PES 2020, 71 in PES 2021. There aren't though too many players who reach 60. ● There's also been a huge change in the Lofted Pass stat for CF since PES 2016. The huge majority of CF has a value below 70 and half of that majority has max 60. It's a bit different for the SS and WF. Not too many players in this role have less than 60. Most of these players have at least 65. Not many have more than 75. In conclusion, I'd always rate the Lofted Pass stat below 70 for strikers in the new gen games unless the specific player was known for being a good long passer. ● The Aggression value introduced in PES 2020 is totally different from the stat featured in the old gen games. The new stat has a defensive meaning as a higher value makes the player be more aggressive and fight more for the ball. The highest value is 90. Most strikers have less than 80. |
Author: | Interista93 [ Fri Dec 10, 2021 9:11 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Personal Guide for Stats Conversion |
Additional explanations WEAK FOOT, FORM, INJURY TOLERANCE ● Starting from PES 2015, Weak Foot Use and Weak Foot Accuracy have a maximum of 4 instead of 8. I give: - 4 when the value in old gen games is 8; - 3 when it's 6 or 7; - 2 when it's 3 to 5; - 1 when it's 1 to 3. ● In case a player has different Condition/Fitness and Consistency, I use the average value to rate Form. When the average is a decimal number (for example, one stat has 5 and the other has 4), I prefer to round down. ● Injury Tolerance is easy to rate. A, B and C correspond to 3, 2 and 1 respectively. MENTALITY/TENACITY KONAMI removed this stat in PES 2014. In my opinion, this was the right thing to do. The huge majority of players in old gen games have a value below 70. While it's understandable that KONAMI wanted the gap between famous and not famous players to be relevant, this made a lot of players very difficult to control for the entire match. Furthermore, this is one of the few stats that didn't increase throughout a Master League. Which means that if you signed a young player with overall very low values, including Mentality, it's highly possible that the player could still have bad performances despite his stats having improved. KONAMI made the right choice by adding the special card Fighting Spirit that works like the old Mentality and should be given only to those players who have a value is at least close to 90. |
Author: | Interista93 [ Fri Dec 10, 2021 9:13 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Personal Guide for Stats Conversion |
Playstyle Cards/Playing Styles Spoiler: show Skill Cards/Player Skills Spoiler: show |
Author: | Talel_Allison [ Sat Dec 11, 2021 7:24 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Personal Guide for Stats Conversion |
First thanks for this helpful topic,your time and your hard efforts(the analyze of players in every pes ) Well i like how did you describe aggression,The Catching and Clearing and skills even if you reverse the Enforcer and Extra Attacker they're all perfect THANKS MEN But as I'm addicted to Pes 2021 and Pes 2017(with Legends patches) so i can say that response(ball winning) is so tricky for players who had great Response and low Defense under 70(Lampard/Gerrard/Phillip Cocu) Cause in our Forum there're a few defenders with Response higher than 88 although in real Pes stats you find player like Wan-Bissaka or Kante had even 92 BW and here Rijkaard/Stam/Bobby Moore had only 85 . So their defensive stats will be so unbalanced like your examples(capello and maicon or davids)high Response and low defense it should be nearly close. For me the Response don't describe fully BW for midfielders obviously, even for defendres like i said Stam/Costacurta/Sami Hyypiä/de boer are all 85 and they're completely different in my humble opinion. The question is how to know that for the player specificly central midfielders their close defenseve stats i know it's hard . |
Author: | Talel_Allison [ Sat Dec 11, 2021 7:26 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Personal Guide for Stats Conversion |
Back to Tight Possession you were right that the Dribble Speed is nearly equal to this ability however i think ther're exception such as players with slow Dribble Speed but with super technical touch with the ball(92<) and you know who i'm talking about in our Forum those players had in DS Bergkamp 78,Zidane 79 and Valderrama 70 but with the official pes stats they had similar to technique(ball control)so they should be under consideration. and the quetion is(part 2) when we WILL add this new Abilites(Ball Winning/GK Catching/GK Clearing/ferocity(Aggression)/Body control/Tight Possession) and Skills(Rabona/Malicia/Fighting Sprint/No Look Pass/GK Long Throws/...). First to rest ourselves and it is necessary to give a perfect evaluation of the historical players by the interesting Pes stats old and new (Mixture) and we get ahead of many other forums. |
Author: | Interista93 [ Sat Dec 11, 2021 7:52 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Personal Guide for Stats Conversion |
Ball Winning is indeed a tricky stat. That's why I mentioned that it'd be as well correct to balance it with Defensive Prowess. Maicon, for example, has Responsiveness 76 in PES 2013 but Ball Winning 65 in PES 2014. However, he was in his last years of career, so it's understandable. The playing style issue is also a tough one in some cases because there are styles working for specific positions in a version of PES but not in another one. Tight Possession can be considered as how a player can control, keep and defend the ball while dribbling even at slow pace but since there's already Ball Control, I find it strange to have two stats with more or less the same function. Lastly, I made this thread exactly because it'd be hard to update all the players in the forum. Maybe who wants can add in a set a P.S. with stats like Ball Winning, GK Catching and so on but I don't know if that would be really necessary. |
Author: | Talel_Allison [ Sat Dec 11, 2021 8:27 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Personal Guide for Stats Conversion |
Interista93 wrote: Ball Winning is indeed a tricky stat. That's why I mentioned that it'd be as well correct to balance it with Defensive Prowess. Maicon, for example, has Responsiveness 76 in PES 2013 but Ball Winning 65 in PES 2014. However, he was in his last years of career, so it's understandable. The playing style issue is also a tough one in some cases because there are styles working for specific positions in a version of PES but not in another one. Tight Possession can be considered as how a player can control, keep and defend the ball while dribbling even at slow pace but since there's already Ball Control, I find it strange to have two stats with more or less the same function. Lastly, I made this thread exactly because it'd be hard to update all the players in the forum. Maybe who wants can add in a set a P.S. with stats like Ball Winning, GK Catching and so on but I don't know if that would be really necessary. Yeah it's not necessary but to devlopp and have another diffrent style like you said we can add a P.S.and get a way from tricky stats and playing style issue. Although i don't think that Body Control is have the same function like Tight Possession here is the official definition by KONAMI: How skilled the player is at performing turns while dribbling at low speed. |
Author: | Interista93 [ Sat Dec 11, 2021 11:46 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Personal Guide for Stats Conversion |
In fact, I see Body Control more like Agility. It's basically how well a player can control his body despite being pushed. In my opinion, if we apply this characteristic to skilled dribblers, it fits agile players. Tight Possession is either like Dribble Speed or a mix between it and Technique. |
Author: | Talel_Allison [ Sun Dec 12, 2021 12:51 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Personal Guide for Stats Conversion |
Interista93 wrote: In fact, I see Body Control more like Agility. It's basically how well a player can control his body despite being pushed. In my opinion, if we apply this characteristic to skilled dribblers, it fits agile players. Tight Possession is either like Dribble Speed or a mix between it and Technique. Yeah i totally agree my friend and take into consideration RIQUELME Agility(Body control as we said) cause he's the best player in terms of ball protection: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y_Qa3RHmNU&t=56s and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNA7zx_B4cw (for fun) If you want the definitions of the new terms of Abilites or Skills and Playstyles here is: https://streetfootie.net/2021/10/10/efo ... es-skills/ |
Author: | James9408 [ Thu Feb 10, 2022 10:11 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Personal Guide for Stats Conversion |
Thanks a lot for this post its been invaluable in helping create my personal PES2021 Excel Spreadsheet. Ive managed to accurately calculate Tight Possession and Ball Winning thanks to the post and the comments too. But Im struggling with the new Aggression stat. I have an overlly analytical and OCD brain so Im desperate to find a consistent calculation for it but I dont think there is one. The best Ive come up with is balancing old Mentality with Ball Winning and adding points for attacking players with Chasing Back/Sliding/Reaction cards. Thanks again for this post. |
Author: | Interista93 [ Thu Feb 10, 2022 3:10 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Personal Guide for Stats Conversion |
James9408 wrote: Thanks a lot for this post its been invaluable in helping create my personal PES2021 Excel Spreadsheet. Ive managed to accurately calculate Tight Possession and Ball Winning thanks to the post and the comments too. But Im struggling with the new Aggression stat. I have an overlly analytical and OCD brain so Im desperate to find a consistent calculation for it but I dont think there is one. The best Ive come up with is balancing old Mentality with Ball Winning and adding points for attacking players with Chasing Back/Sliding/Reaction cards. Thanks again for this post. You're welcome mate! I think your analysis to rate the new Aggression is very accurate. The stat refers to how aggressively a player tries to steal the ball but it has nothing to do with how long he will play well or how many chances are for him to commit a foul. However, most players with high Aggression have the Fighting Spirit card that replaced the old Mentality and many of them have also Interception. Some defensive players even have The Destroyer playing style that makes a player tackle a lot and possibly fairly just like the old Enforcer card or the old Sliding special ability. I wouldn't take in consideration though Chasing Back and Reaction/Marauding, especially this second one that was replaced by Full-back Finisher for defenders and Hole Player for midfielders because both make the player run towards the goal when they have the chance just like Reaction/Marauding used to do. |
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