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 DOMINGOS DA GUIA 1935-1940 
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Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:26 pm
Posts: 1314
Name: Domingos Antônio da Guia

Nickname: "O Divino Mestre"

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Country: :BRA: Brazil
Club: Vasco Da Gama | Boca Juniors | CR Flamengo
Position: *CB, DMF
Side: RF/BS
Age: 23-28 years (19/11/1912)

Height: 182 cm
Weight: 78 kg

Attack: 65
Defence: 90
Balance: 81
Stamina: 77
Top Speed: 72
Acceleration: 68
Response: 75
Agility: 71
Dribble Accuracy: 83
Dribble Speed: 68
Short Pass Accuracy: 79
Short Pass Speed: 70
Long Pass Accuracy: 75
Long Pass Speed: 72
Shot Accuracy: 59
Shot Power: 76
Shot Technique: 63
Free Kick Accuracy: 60
Curling: 69
Header: 86
Jump: 81
Technique: 81
Aggression: 72
Mentality: 78
Goalkeeper Skills: 50
Team Work: 91

Injury Tolerance: A
Condition: 5
Weak Foot Accuracy: 5
Weak Foot Frequency: 5
Consistency: 6
Growth type: Early Peak

CARDS:
S07 - Man Marking
S09 - Covering

SPECIAL ABILITIES: Dribbling - Marking - Covering

Attack/Defence Awareness Card: Balanced


Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:15 pm
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El Capo wrote:
Pfff, best brazilian defender in history my ass.

Did he faced Maradona, Zico, Rummenigge, Platini, Ronaldo, Baggio R., Zidane, Del Piero, Bergkamp, Shearer like Oscar, Edinho and Aldaír did?


I completely agree, I’ve heard no actual arguments as to why he should be considered better than even the likes of Mauro Ramos, Bellini and Orlando who only played 20 years after him. Seems like he’s just been overrated all these years because he could dribble a bit and not because of his achievements or influence on the pitch or any kind of defensive ability.


Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:25 am
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Were Oscar, Aldair, Edinho so exposed to their opponents, did they play together with only one defender? I highly doubt they had a more difficult task, so I don't see the point of such comparisons. Domingos was number one in America at that time. He impressed Argentinians, Brazilians as well as everybody else, even Europeans, and he was elected in the World cup All star team.


Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:06 am
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Also, he was taller than this, I saw 185cm, 79kg on Wikipedia and other sources. They say he excelled physically, but he was not such a great team player, dribbling sometimes without any need.


Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:28 am
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Location: Aragua De Barcelona, Venezuela
The formations back said 2-3-5, yet isn't realistically plausible that they were always 2v5, the wing half marked the wing forward.

Football was, regardless of any formation", still amateurish at the time, no point of realistically taking the game back them as serious like in the 80's and 90's (even in the 70's with the Dutch), Domingos and any other defender could get away with nasty fouls that nowadays could sent them off in less than 45 minutes, no matter who romanticized you read the info about them, the surviving footage of those times tell you how was the level back them.

Doesn't matter if the Austrians back in the 30's overall played 3-4 more ground passes than the rest of the "kick-the-ball-to-the-center-forward-and-let's-see-what-happens" NTs of the era as the texts said, they'll get wrecked by the Hungarians of the 50's or any decent team past them due to the superior technical, tactical and physical prowess.

Meazza84 wrote:
Also, he was taller than this, I saw 185cm, 79kg on Wikipedia and other sources.


Spoiler: show
Image

Roberto Cherro (at best 168/169 cm) and Domingos Da Guia

Image
Ronaldo (185 cm) Messi (169 cm)


Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:43 am
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But notice that he doesn't stand straight in that photo, but a little hunched.

Of course you make sense, but why in the world would you make comparisons with players of the modern era? Domingos was among the best in HIS era, yet I can see many, many of his contemporaries with superior sets. Why does this realism punish the best players the most?

And you shouldn't really take the surviving footage as a definite proof for anything. Not only because of the bad picture quality, but also because of unnatural speed, sometimes too fast, sometimes far too slow. Such was the technology at the time.

Also don't forget their ridiculous playing equipment at the time, the irregular and heavy balls, the soldier's boots they were wearing, and let's not even mention the pitches. It was impossible and unrealistic to play ground passes at the time. Why would anyone compare teams from different times?


But take a Domingos in his prime to the future with a time machine, give him a year. Train him and give him good equipment and coaches. Are you still so sure he would be so inferior? :)

Also, take Cristiano Ronaldo to the thirties, give him the leather boots, let him play on potato fields, and watch him get butchered with the kind of fouls you mentioned and get skinny eating what everyone else is eating. Now THAT'S a fair comparison in my book.


Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:39 pm
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Honestly, everyone of you got valid points in my opinion. What I think about though is: since the players here are made to be playable in game, how would they be? Let's imagine a game with only players from before the 60s or even before the 50s: there wouldn't be any problem. But what if a user (like me for example) makes teams with players from all eras.. would players like Domingos stand a chance with recent players? He has orange defence and very good heading ability but he also has low balance, speed and response. In my opinion he might easily get demolished by more recent strikers. In conclusion, if Domingos was a recent player, would it really be this crap compared to the others? If the answer is yes, I have no complains then.


Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:01 pm
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Interista93 wrote:
Honestly, everyone of you got valid points in my opinion. What I think about though is: since the players here are made to be playable in game, how would they be? Let's imagine a game with only players from before the 60s or even before the 50s: there wouldn't be any problem. But what if a user (like me for example) makes teams with players from all eras.. would players like Domingos stand a chance with recent players? He has orange defence and very good heading ability but he also has low balance, speed and response. In my opinion he might easily get demolished by more recent strikers. In conclusion, if Domingos was a recent player, would it really be this crap compared to the others? If the answer is yes, I have no complains then.


Actually, with this set, Domingos would not even be among the best defenders in his own era, and that's my main complaint. He wpuld be demolished by most of the good strikers of the era, for example Carvalho Leite or Schiavio.

As for your question, of course he would suck today. But give him time to adapt - give any player from any era the time to adapt fo another era - and they would do fine.


Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:07 pm
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At least that's what I believe :)


Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:17 pm
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Location: Aragua De Barcelona, Venezuela
Meazza84 wrote:
But notice that he doesn't stand straight in that photo, but a little hunched.


Still doesn't look like if he's a head taller than Cherro.

Meazza84 wrote:
Of course you make sense, but why in the world would you make comparisons with players of the modern era? Domingos was among the best in HIS era, yet I can see many, many of his contemporaries with superior sets. Why does this realism punish the best players the most?


I can't speak about them, i didn't do the others sets.

Meazza84 wrote:
And you shouldn't really take the surviving footage as a definite proof for anything. Not only because of the bad picture quality, but also because of unnatural speed, sometimes too fast, sometimes far too slow. Such was the technology at the time.


You can "correct" the speed with video editors as far as i know, unfortunately not many are aware of it, neither i'm good editing videos.

Meazza84 wrote:
Also don't forget their ridiculous playing equipment at the time, the irregular and heavy balls, the soldier's boots they were wearing, and let's not even mention the pitches. It was impossible and unrealistic to play ground passes at the time. Why would anyone compare teams from different times?

Granted the playing equipments
The Austrians and the Uruguayans did, however favour a short passing style at the time despite how uncared were the fields.

Meazza84 wrote:
But take a Domingos in his prime to the future with a time machine, give him a year. Train him and give him good equipment and coaches. Are you still so sure he would be so inferior? :)

Also, take Cristiano Ronaldo to the thirties, give him the leather boots, let him play on potato fields, and watch him get butchered with the kind of fouls you mentioned and get skinny eating what everyone else is eating. Now THAT'S a fair comparison in my book.


What Domingos has to adapt if he's supposedly the "best" brazilian defender ever? To not ram himself up on Cristiano Ronaldo because no matter who 'good' the Brazilians claim that he was, he wouldn't catch a guy who at his physical peak ran 100 mts in pretty much less than 11 seconds, and that's only the physical aspect, leaving aside the technical and tactical aspect.


Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:51 pm
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El Capo wrote:
Still doesn't look like if he's a head taller than Cherro.


Neither is Ronaldo a head taller than Messi.

Spoiler: show
Image


Spoiler: show
Image


I don't know. 185 cm is information you can find all over the place. How reliable such information is I cannot know, but it seems to be consistent in all sources.


Quote:
I can't speak about them, i didn't do the others sets.


Fair enough. I actually like your sets better, but the problem is there is no consistency in the database.


Quote:
What Domingos has to adapt if he's supposedly the "best" brazilian defender ever? To not ram himself up on Cristiano Ronaldo because no matter who 'good' the Brazilians claim that he was, he wouldn't catch a guy who at his physical peak ran 100 mts in pretty much less than 11 seconds, and that's only the physical aspect, leaving aside the technical and tactical aspect.


What do you mean "what does he have to adapt to"? Footballers have to adapt when they start playing in another country, let alone when they are transported into another world basically. C. Ronaldo would have to adapt to Domingos' era as well. There is no telling what either of the fantasy experiments would be like.

Again, I don't understand what C.Ronaldo has to do with Domingos da Guia. Like that is some kind of ultimate test for Domingos or something to show that he is worthy playing in this era. First of all, C. Ronaldo with a ball in his feet is regularly and consistently stopped by average, normal players every weekend. Because for all his good feet, great speed, power and perfect positioning he is a very, very predictable player. He does manage to beat an opponent 1 vs 1 only rarely in the last 5 years and we are actually surprised when he does, not the opposite. Domingos would arguably be able to reach that level, if so many of modern defenders have, even the average ones. After a year of modern top-notch physical conditioning and learning about modern tactics he would probably be ready to play today.

Now Ronaldo is a superior player because he has a superb positional reasoning, great shot, jump and power and in order to prevent him from scoring you don't need one player, but a well-organized team of good individuals. A solid defender that can read the game well and jump high is a very valuable asset in such a team. I don't know for sure if Domingos was such a player, but I suppose you were talking about 1vs1 situations in which he supposedly was far better than average.

Again, why we are talking about CR7 here is beyond me. :D It doesn't show absolutely anything of importance in this discussion.


Mon Sep 09, 2019 3:15 pm
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You brought CR7 to begin with lol

Either way, i'm just not taking for granted whatever it's written for guys like Domingos, Bican and so on, whatever they say about them portray them like they were superhumans or something.

I try to have a ladder according to these players before 1960 since their footage is limited, taking in count stats + let's say 'the fame' of the player.


Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:48 pm
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I agree that is actually the only right way to do it. Your stats are very good quality. I just said that the problem is there is no consistency in the database, that's all.


Mon Sep 09, 2019 4:54 pm
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I think it's impossible to have a perfect consistency for all sets since everyone has his own way to rate the stats. Unless every single set is reworked or made by everyone together using all opinions (of course I'm joking because it would be madness :lol: ).


Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:14 pm
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