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 Santos F.C. All Stars 
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Santos F.C. All Stars



Image


Image



Coach: :BRA: LULA

Image




GOALKEEPERS:

:BRA: GILMAR
:URU: Rodolfo RODRÍGUEZ


DEFENDERS:

:BRA: CALVET
:BRA: CARLOS ALBERTO
:BRA: DALMO
:BRA: FORMIGA
:BRA: LÉO
:BRA: Mauro RAMOS
:ARG: José RAMOS DELGADO


MIDFIELDERS:

:BRA: ANTONINHO
:BRA: CLODOALDO
:BRA: ELANO
:BRA: Antônio LIMA
:BRA: MENGÁLVIO
:BRA: RENATO
:BRA: ZITO


FORWARDS:

:BRA: COUTINHO
:BRA: DORVAL
:BRA: EDU
:BRA: PAGÃO
:BRA: PELÉ
:BRA: PEPE
:BRA: TONINHO GUERREIRO


__________________________________________________


RESERVES:


GOALKEEPERS:

:BRA: CLÁUDIO
:BRA: Fábio COSTA
:BRA: LAÉRCIO
:BRA: MANGA (1929)


DEFENDERS:

:BRA: ALEX
:BRA: BILU
:BRA: Joel CAMARGO
:BRA: EDU DRACENA
:BRA: GILBERTO SORRISO
:BRA: HÉLVIO
:BRA: Emerson MARÇAL
:BRA: NARCISO
:BRA: OBERDAN
:BRA: ORLANDO
:BRA: RAMIRO
:BRA: RILDO


MIDFIELDERS:

:BRA: CAMARÃO
:BRA: DIEGO
:BRA: GANSO
:BRA: GIOVANNI
:BRA: GRADIM
:BRA: JAIR
:BRA: Aílton LIRA
:BRA: Agostinho MARBA
:BRA: NENÊ BELARMINO
:BRA: PITA
:BRA: RAUL (1910)
:BRA: Válter VASCONCELOS


FORWARDS:

:BRA: ABEL
:BRA: ÁLVARO (1931)
:BRA: ARAKEN
:BRA: ARY PATUSCA
:BRA: DEL VECCHIO
:BRA: FEITIÇO
:BRA: HAROLDO
:BRA: NEYMAR
:BRA: ODAIR TITICA
:BRA: ROBINHO
:BRA: SERGINHO
:BRA: TITE





THE BEST EVER XI

Image

GK GILMAR
CB MAURO RAMOS
CB CALVET
RB CARLOS ALBERTO
LB LÉO
DMF ZITO ©
DMF CLODOALDO
CMF LIMA
SS PELÉ
SS PEPE
CF COUTINHO

Captain: Zito | Mauro Ramos
Short free kick: Pelé
Long free kick: Pepe
Free Kick 2: Clodoaldo
Left corner: Lima
Right corner: Lima
Penalty: Pelé | Pepe





INFO:


Last edited by Interista93 on Wed Mar 01, 2023 10:24 pm, edited 10 times in total.



Wed Mar 20, 2013 9:59 pm
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Having Alex in the first team just seems wrong, he only played 2 full seasons, and there’s plenty of players that can play CB here anyway. I really think Neymar should replace him, he led Santos to their only Libertadores without Pelé, and was already one of the best players in the world by the time he left.


Sat Apr 20, 2019 1:58 am
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Location: Serbia
Quote:
Having Alex in the first team just seems wrong, he only played 2 full seasons, and there’s plenty of players that can play CB here anyway. I really think Neymar should replace him, he led Santos to their only Libertadores without Pelé, and was already one of the best players in the world by the time he left.


I agree with that, and also, for me it seems wrong for the club with so many great offensive players to have eight defenders in the first team.
Regarding Neymar, although I'm not his biggest fan, I can't deny that he had great time in Santos during which he was their key player and won some silverware, most notably of course Copa Libertadores. So, I agree with putting him in the first team.
And one more thing, I'm not so sure that Giovanni (if this is he https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giovanni_ ... e_Oliveira ) deserves a place in the first team.


Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:21 pm
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Team updated.
Calvet replaced with Formiga: they were both important in the early 1960s but Formiga was also a key player during the whole 1950s and played around twice the matches Calvet did.
I agree that eight defenders were too much. So, I replaced Alex (who surely doesn't deserve to be in the first team) with center forward Toninho Guerreiro (key player in the second part of the 1960s, 368 matches and 279 goals). I know Neymar was suggested but he would be another player with SS or WF as main position. This way only Coutinho would be a proper CF. If any of you isn't sure about Toninho Guerreiro you can suggest another player but in my opinion he has to be a CF.
Giovanni surely didn't deserve a place in the main squad either and, in my opinion, so didn't Aílton Lira. After all Santos had so many midfielders who played more and were arguably better players. I replaced them with Elano (322 matches and 68 goals) and Renato (424 and 33). There would be other options as well but I chose them for their importance during the 2002 season, when Santos won a Série A after 34 years, and 2004 in case of Elano. Of course the total appearances also had a big role in the selection. Léo, who played over 400 games and he as well was part of the 2002 and 2004 squads, might be a replacement for Dalmo but I'm not sure. What do you think?
If you have any suggestion, go on! :)


Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:21 am
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Posts: 2475
IMO it shouldn't be the primary criteria that Calvet played less matches than Formiga or Joel Carvalho, he was better player than both of them and was a undisputed starter in the best ever Santos team (1962 and 1963). There's no way he can be ommited here (even in best XI he would be a far better choice than Formiga), same goes for Dalmo IMO.
I personally find Renato's selection a bit strange, it's true that he spent good amount of time at the club but his peak certainly came at Sevilla and also later at Botafogo, not Santos.
Regarding reserves: If Juary, Diego and Serginho are good/important enough to be there, then there's no reason why Ganso shouldn't be there as well.


Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:53 pm
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gurkenjoe93 wrote:
IMO it shouldn't be the primary criteria that Calvet played less matches than Formiga or Joel Carvalho, he was better player than both of them and was a undisputed starter in the best ever Santos team (1962 and 1963). There's no way he can be ommited here (even in best XI he would be a far better choice than Formiga), same goes for Dalmo IMO.
I personally find Renato's selection a bit strange, it's true that he spent good amount of time at the club but his peak certainly came at Sevilla and also later at Botafogo, not Santos.
Regarding reserves: If Juary, Diego and Serginho are good/important enough to be there, then there's no reason why Ganso shouldn't be there as well.

Okay, I'll add Calvet back in first squad and best XI instead of Formiga and I'll keep Dalmo.
If you'd replace Renato, who would you add? Antoninho or Camarão may be an option in my opinion.
I prefer not having too many reserves if possible. 13 per role is already over my usual standard of 10-12. Of course this is just a standard I use and doesn't have to be necessarily respected. Would you just add Ganso or replace Diego with him if you consider him more important? Otherwise I may take out all three players you mentioned.


Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:48 pm
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Posts: 2475
Interista93 wrote:
Okay, I'll add Calvet back in first squad and best XI instead of Formiga and I'll keep Dalmo.

I'd remove Joel, not Formiga.

Quote:
If you'd replace Renato, who would you add? Antoninho or Camarão may be an option in my opinion.


Well I'd go for Antoninho tbh but I leave that decision to you.

Quote:
I prefer not having too many reserves if possible. 13 per role is already over my usual standard of 10-12. Of course this is just a standard I use and doesn't have to be necessarily respected. Would you just add Ganso or replace Diego with him if you consider him more important? Otherwise I may take out all three players you mentioned.
[/quote]

Ganso > Diego > Serginho > Juary. Therefore I'd remove Juary, move Jair to forwards and add Ganso.


Sat Nov 14, 2020 11:51 pm
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Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:52 am
Posts: 476
Elano cannot be in the first 23, sorry but contemporany players were way more important than him for Santos, Diego is an example. Diego and Robinho were the stars, not Elano. If think not even Elano would put him between the 23.

I would also rather Ganso and Giovanni than Elano.

Despite some supporters of Santos didnt like him, Neymar have to be between the 23. Ganso and him were the most importants players during the third Libertadores.


Mon Aug 09, 2021 12:48 pm
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Bola Clássica wrote:
Elano cannot be in the first 23, sorry but contemporany players were way more important than him for Santos, Diego is an example. Diego and Robinho were the stars, not Elano. If think not even Elano would put him between the 23.

I would also rather Ganso and Giovanni than Elano.

Despite some supporters of Santos didnt like him, Neymar have to be between the 23. Ganso and him were the most importants players during the third Libertadores.


Not counting the regional league, Neymar played less than 150 and Ganso barely 100 while Elano over 220.
However, since the number of matches isn't the only criteria to consider, Elano not only won as well the 2011 Copa Libertadores but he also won two Série A.


Mon Aug 09, 2021 1:10 pm
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Ok. I see you are really attached regarding the amount of games, even considering that in Brazil is different.

In this case, Léo (left-back) is in the first team for sure.


Mon Aug 09, 2021 1:22 pm
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Bola Clássica wrote:
Ok. I see you are really attached regarding the amount of games, even considering that in Brazil is different.

In this case, Léo (left-back) is in the first team for sure.


As I pointed out, I don't consider only the number of games but also other factors like the titles.
Regarding Léo, the team already has two left backs, Rildo and Dalmo.


Mon Aug 09, 2021 1:31 pm
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Ok, I see. not questioning that. In fact, the job you made here in all clubs is really amazing. Impressive.

But I think one important think is missing when considering the AS teams. The protagonism of the players during their periods.

I good example is: Elano only have this amount of games fo Santos because he wasnt a world class player in his time. Can you imagine Neymar coming back to Santos nowadays, for example?

I saw both Santos' modern age teams. Robinho and Diego squad and Ganso and Neymar squad. I also saw Giovanni and I can ensure you the all five were more relevant for the club as players, not as personas.

PS: Is there any topic that I can check the criterias?

I already understand about matchs and titles but would be good if I could check all the criterias.


Mon Aug 09, 2021 1:46 pm
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Bola Clássica wrote:
Is there any topic that I can check the criterias?

I already understand about matchs and titles but would be good if I could check all the criterias.


There's not a universally valid criteria. It's important to have a first team with all the positions covered and if a team already has, for example, two left backs, there's no need for a third one. So it's better in that situation to make space for another position. Of course, many players who are eligible for the first team are "sacrificed" because our first team are of 23 players and only 2 goalkeepers.


Mon Aug 09, 2021 2:07 pm
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Interista93 wrote:
Bola Clássica wrote:
Is there any topic that I can check the criterias?

I already understand about matchs and titles but would be good if I could check all the criterias.


There's not a universally valid criteria. It's important to have a first team with all the positions covered and if a team already has, for example, two left backs, there's no need for a third one. So it's better in that situation to make space for another position. Of course, many players who are eligible for the first team are "sacrificed" because our first team are of 23 players and only 2 goalkeepers.



Ok. Understood. I will pay more attention on the positions to keep it more balanced as it only fits 23. Anyway, I posted some suggestions in the forum.


Mon Aug 09, 2021 4:26 pm
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Dude, i went into this topic firmly thinking on put Neymar among the 23, but after some research, i saw that it is very difficult to replace him with anyone that is there, so the reserves is a good place for him. However, I still have some suggestions:

1 - Leo instead of Rildo. I believe that this is the critical point of this team, I believe that Léo cannot be out of the starting XI, due to the records he broke at Santos FC and the titles he won. Let's make a little comparison:

Number of games:
Rildo - 325
Leo - 455

Main titles by the club:
Rildo - Campeonato Paulista, (1967, 1968 and 1969), Supercopa Sudamericana (1968), Recopa Intercontinental (1968)

Léo - Libertadores da América (2011), Campeonato Brasileiro (2002 and 2004), Copa do Brasil (2010), Recopa Sudamericana (2012), Campeonato Paulista (2010, 2011, 2012)

basically, he is Santos FC's biggest post-Pelé era winner.

2 - Ganso instead of Pita in 23. Honestly, I didn't understand what Pita does there, he only won one Campeonato Paulista for the club. Ganso, in turn, won Libertadores da América, 3 Campeonatos Paulista, Copa do Brasil and 1 Recopa Sudamericana. In the idolatry factor, Ganso is certainly bigger, being the main protagonist along with Neymar of the second biggest winning phase of Santos.


Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:52 pm
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