C.R. Flamengo All Stars

Coach: Paulo César CARPEGIANI






GOALKEEPERS:

Sinforiano GARCÍA
RAUL PLASSMANN


DEFENDERS:

DOMINGOS DA GUIA
JORDAN
JORGINHO
Leovegildo JÚNIOR
LEANDRO
MARINHO
Carlos MOZER


MIDFIELDERS:

ADÍLIO
Jorge ANDRADE
CARLINHOS
Paulo César CARPEGIANI
DEQUINHA
ZICO
ZIZINHO


FORWARDS:

DIDA
GABRIEL BARBOSA
JOEL
LEÔNIDAS
João NUNES
ROMÁRIO
Mário ZAGALLO


__________________________________________________


RESERVES:


GOALKEEPERS:

Diego ALVES
Antônio CANTARELI
GILMAR (1959)
JÚLIO CÉSAR


DEFENDERS:

ATHIRSON
Modesto BRÍA
Newton CANEGAL
JADIR
JUAN (1982)
LÉO MOURA
LEONARDO
PAULO HENRIQUE
PAVÃO
José RODRIGUES NETO
Antônio RONDINELLI
TONINHO BAIANO


MIDFIELDERS:

Willian ARÃO
BIGUÁ
Giorgian DE ARRASCAETA
DIEGO
ÉVERTON RIBEIRO
GÉRSON
JAIME DE ALMEIDA (1920)
LIMINHA
MOACIR
Dejan PETKOVIĆ
RENATO ABREU
RUBENS


FORWARDS:

BEBETO
BRUNO HENRIQUE
EVARISTO
Henrique FRADE
ÍNDIO
JARBAS
Durval JUNQUEIRA
NONÔ
PEDRO (1997)
Sylvio PIRILLO
TITA
ZINHO









INFO:

Sorry, two more things.

Leandro cannot be out of the 11. NEVER NEVER NEVER! I know Jorginho is great, but Leandro is simply the best right back from Flamengo ever. It is impossible to find someone in Brazil that dont think the same.

Also, I would change "Andrade in, Dequinha out" among the 11. But yeah it can be discussed. Anyway, Im pretty sure Andrade would win an election with experts.

Dude, I really believe that the discussion about Adriano (specifically) joining the reserves at least should have a more popular appeal here. as mentioned above, I believe that factors such as "iconicity" and representativeness for the club are as important as technical criteria like matches/goals. He is often cited by websites and specialized journalists as one of the biggest idols in the club's history, and although he doesn't really have as much longevity as others, he certainly represented Flamengo's DNA and was the idol of a crowd that saw Adriano win a title important being top scorer. I would personally add Adriano to the reserves, I don't think he would replace any of the 23.

Here are some sources (in Portuguese) ranking Adriano's idolatry in Flamengo:

https://netfla.com.br/noticias/os-30-ma ... ja-ranking - Adriano is 10°

https://blog.espacorubronegro.com.br/id ... -historia/ - Adriano appears (the list is not in order of the biggest, but by eras.)


they are few, but I believe that it is enough to prove that he is able to enter the reserves, since he has several reserves that are not even mentioned. Furthermore, when a list of Flamengo idols is put together, Adriano is always cited by the fans, who really magnifies him (exaggeratedly? perhaps, but it would be unfair if one of the biggest recent idols and beloved of the fans were left out.)

I agree with that. Honestly, it's even absurd that Leandro isn't there, it seems like a joke. So yes, he should NEVER be out of the XI starting lineup, it's a sin, it's the same as taking Lahm out of Bayern's XI or even worse.

Exactly... I guess the situation is similar to what happens with Diego Maradona for Boca Juniors, of course to a lesser extent. Diego is a God there, Adriano is a symbol. I'm not comparing the level of the players (Im not crazy), but the fast and smashing passage for the club.

Not even mention that Adriano debut in Flamengo and when he was already a star in Europe, he left everything behind (carrer, money, etc) to play and "be happy" (his words) in Flamengo. An attitude that we dont see offen in football, specially nowadays.

He not being mentioned, even between the reserves is too much.

Seriously?
Adriano came back because he threw his career away in Europe (where he never was a star btw) by spending more time in nightclubs and bars then on the training field. That has nothing to do with attitude, it's the same kind of unprofessionalism that Maradona, Ronaldo, Robinho, Ronaldinho and various other South American players (especially Brazilians with few exceptions like Ze Roberto) showed before and therefore returned to their home leagues. Those guys didn't have attitude, they simply wanted to continue their career in leagues with lower playing level and where the fans didn't care about their performances and lack of professionalism. Actually those players were role models for the spoiled talents of today - they got hype and tons of money from young age on only to become average players when they were 30

I don't think Adriano's presence is of extreme urgency, even though all the players in the reserve are multi-champions for the club and the dispute is very difficult with these guys, I would prefer to open a new space in the forwards just to include Adriano. But respecting the space limits for each team, I think it is feasible to remove Claudinor "Nonô" Gonçalves to Adriano's entrance. I think Adriano's case is similar to Romário's, who was not long-lived and a winner like many reserves there, but was overwhelmingly representative.

So, what's the point, unless you don't like the Brazilians professionalism?

"where the fans didn't care about their performances and lack of professionalism." Do you really believe on that?

When you are two consecutives years (2004 and 2005) among the 10 best players, arent you a star in Europe?

Exactly, he was considered among the best players in those two years. What happened after? He couldn't maintain that status, proving it was just temporary. A great player who is also a professional is supposed to be that throughout his entire career. Also, was it the media who considered him among the best 10 players? Probably the same guys who threw several Balon D'Or to "you know who" like they were throwing bread to seagulls. What I mean is: everyone can say that to any player but I honestly don't trust media that much.

Ok. I understand your point and it is fair.

What I was trying to say before is the way he is seen by Flamengo's supporters. That is what matters here.

You can consider his attitude good or not, I am not here to judge Adriano behavior or others Brazilians behavior.

The point is: his attitude made him an idol, not least because, when he came back, he got in shape, was top scorer, the best player in the Brazilian championship and Flamengo was champion after 17 years not winning.

You said that he came back as a star what simply is wrong because Adriano wasn't professional and wasn't any sort of star when he returned to Brazil. If he would have been a star at that point, he would have never left Inter and especially not for South America.



Yeah, when I see how the returns of "finished" players (and the guys I mentioned all were finished in Europe when they went home) are celebrated by the fans in South America, then I get the impression that they don't care if the player is still half as good as he used to be or if he's professional outside the pitch. That behaviour shows huge respect for the player but it also shows that they're willed to accept his negative behaviour as well to have him back.



What 10 best players? The 10 best players that France Football voted?
Michael Ballack didn't receive any points in 2004 despite beeing one of the best midfielders in the world, same goes for Andrea Pirlo or Fabio Cannavaro who didn't get a single vote in both those years despite belonging to the best players at that time.
Btw, we're speaking about a striker who couldn't even score 20 league goals in one season of his career - so no, he certainly wasn't a star and also not one of the 10 best players..

Exactly. The crowd also weighs a lot, take a look at this popular poll promoted by uol magazine, for example: https://www.uol.com.br/esporte/enquetes/2017/05/11/flamengo.htm

The starting strikers are Adriano and Romario. Obviously, the popular mass may not know Leonidas that well, but the affection he receives cannot be ignored, he is an icon. And this is just one point of the many shown here.

You are right, but that is not the focus of the discussion. The guy just cited a context, and whether accurate or not, that's just not where he wanted to go. That's a hell of a storm in a teacup.

The point is that maybe he was well considered by Flamengo's supporters and received much affection. However, that's not the best factor to choose players. Many times I found articles about fans voting a best ever team with guys who spent one season — maybe not even full — but because they were great somewhere else, they made the list.

I think that in the near future Gabriel Barbosa will be able to replace Zagallo in the initial 23, even because Zagallo doesn't have much fit in the team's tactics. We must be patient, as he is still playing and a lot can happen, but I believe he is the main (and perhaps the only) exponent to enter in the 23.

I also take back what I said about Adriano, Interista is right, he doesn't have enough to enter the reserves, despite being liked by the fans. I think names like Narciso Doval are even more important in Flamengo than Adriano.

Since I suggested to add Zagallo and Interista agreed with me, I'll explain why he is here: There's no point of having a fourth CF when you have Leonidas/Romario/Nunes + Dida/Bebeto. On the other hand this team didn't have a proper left winger, that's why I suggested either Zagallo or Lico. All Star Teams should always be balanced, that's why this team needed one left (Zagallo) and one right winger (Joel).