Pes Miti del Calcio :: View topic - Roberto BAGGIO 1992-1994 | 1997-1999

TheGreatRossonero wrote:

1. No one is saying that this set has right values, there's a reason why mods move this player to this section.

StuartBannigan wrote:

I appreciate the time and effort Rosso put into his post and explaining how the stats work, I just have reservations about the theory behind it. I just find it simply impossible to rate players while not comparing them whatsoever. Using other sets as a reference point is very helpful, for example I used the Jimmy Armfield set here as a basis for my Eric Caldow set. Actually, to be honest I don’t see the problem with comparing players at all. If we give everyone that can score as many goals as Baggio 94+ SA, then we’ll have a lot of players with those numbers. I mean, look at the Bologna set, it has 5 red and 6 orange values. If those were a fair representation of his ability, then he would have scored 50 goals and got 25 assists that season...

If you want to play a game where about 50 people all have red shooting stats, fair enough, but I think we should at least try and balance them a bit instead of making every player an overpowered monster like the Bologna set here.

StuartBannigan wrote:

Actually, to be honest I don’t see the problem with comparing players at all. If we give everyone that can score as many goals as Baggio 94+ SA, then we’ll have a lot of players with those numbers. I mean, look at the Bologna set, it has 5 red and 6 orange values. If those were a fair representation of his ability, then he would have scored 50 goals and got 25 assists that season...

If you want to play a game where about 50 people all have red shooting stats, fair enough, but I think we should at least try and balance them a bit instead of making every player an overpowered monster like the Bologna set here.

Author:	Nakayama [ Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Roberto BAGGIO 1992-1994 \| 1997-1999 \| 2001-2004
Name: Roberto Baggio Country: Italy Clubs: Juventus Position: ★SS , CF , AMF Side: RF/BS Age: 25-27 years (18/02/1967) Height: 174 cm Weight: 72 kg Attack: 93 Defence: 42 Balance: 74 Stamina: 79 Top Speed: 78 Acceleration: 86 Response: 85 Agility: 85 Dribble Accuracy: 97 Dribble Speed: 88 Short Pass Accuracy: 92 Short Pass Speed: 77 Long Pass Accuracy: 90 Long Pass Speed: 72 Shot Accuracy: 94 Shot Power: 78 Shot Technique: 95 Free Kick Accuracy: 92 Curling: 92 Header: 79 Jump: 71 Technique: 98 Aggression: 86 Mentality: 90 Goalkeeper Skills: 50 Team Work: 85 Injury Tolerance: C Condition: 5 Weak Foot Accuracy: 7 Weak Foot Frequency: 6 Consistency: 7 Growth Type: Standard/Lasting CARDS: P10 - Incisive Run S02 - Passer S03 - 1-On-1 Finish S04 - PK Taker S05 - 1-Touch Play S06 - Outside Curve S15 - Shoulder Feint Skills S20 - Flicking Skills S21 - Step On Skills SPECIAL ABILITIES: Dribbling - Tactical Dribble - Passing - 1-On-1 Scoring - Penalties - 1-Touch Pass - Outside Freekick Style: 4 Attack/Defence Awareness: Attack-Minded _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Name: Roberto Baggio Country: Italy Clubs: Bologna \| Internazionale Position: ★SS , CF , AMF Side: RF/BS Age: 31-32 years (18/02/1967) Height: 174 cm Weight: 72 kg Attack: 96 Defence: 42 Balance: 74 Stamina: 76 Top Speed: 77 Acceleration: 83 Response: 82 Agility: 83 Dribble Accuracy: 96 Dribble Speed: 83 Short Pass Accuracy: 95 Short Pass Speed: 77 Long Pass Accuracy: 90 Long Pass Speed: 73 Shot Accuracy: 95 Shot Power: 77 Shot Technique: 96 Free Kick Accuracy: 92 Curling: 92 Header: 74 Jump: 67 Technique: 98 Aggression: 75 Mentality: 85 Goalkeeper Skills: 50 Team Work: 85 Injury Tolerance: C Condition: 4 Weak Foot Accuracy: 7 Weak Foot Frequency: 6 Consistency: 7 Growth Type: Standard/Lasting CARDS: P10 - Incisive Run S02 - Passer S03 - 1-On-1 Finish S04 - PK Taker S05 - 1-Touch Play S06 - Outside Curve S15 - Shoulder Feint Skills S20 - Flicking Skills S21 - Step On Skills SPECIAL ABILITIES: Tactical Dribble - Passing - 1-On-1 Scoring - Penalties - 1-Touch Pass - Outside Freekick Style: 4 Attack/Defence Awareness: Attack-Minded _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Name: Roberto Baggio Country: Italy Club: Brescia Position: ★SS , AMF Side: RF/BS Age: 34-37 years (18/02/1967) Height: 174 cm Weight: 72 kg Attack: 93 Defence: 42 Balance: 73 Stamina: 74 Top Speed: 73 Acceleration: 76 Response: 88 Agility: 79 Dribble Accuracy: 96 Dribble Speed: 76 Short Pass Accuracy: 95 Short Pass Speed: 77 Long Pass Accuracy: 90 Long Pass Speed: 73 Shot Accuracy: 94 Shot Power: 77 Shot Technique: 95 Free Kick Accuracy: 92 Curling: 92 Header: 73 Jump: 67 Technique: 99 Aggression: 73 Mentality: 92 Goalkeeper Skills: 50 Team Work: 93 Injury Tolerance: C Condition: 3 Weak Foot Accuracy: 7 Weak Foot Frequency: 6 Consistency: 8 Growth Type: Standard/Lasting CARDS: P10 - Incisive Run S02 - Passer S03 - 1-On-1 Finish S04 - PK Taker S05 - 1-Touch Play S06 - Outside Curve S15 - Shoulder Feint Skills S20 - Flicking Skills S21 - Step On Skills SPECIAL ABILITIES: Tactical Dribble - Playmaking - Passing - 1-On-1 Scoring - Penalties - 1-Touch Pass - Outside Freekick Style: 4 Attack/Defence Awareness: Attack-Minded

Author:	El Capo [ Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:28 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Roberto BAGGIO 1990-1994 \| 1997-1998 \| 2000-2004
The more i read such statements like the two posted ahead of Rosso, the more i see that people don't know how the stats as a whole works, and only see numbers. Are Eusebio, Pele, Romario and Zico "less dangerous" because this particular stat is lower in them than Baggio now? EDIT: The pics of Baggio hosted on imgur btw: Spoiler: show

Author:	StuartBannigan [ Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Roberto BAGGIO 1990-1994 \| 1997-1998 \| 2000-2004
I appreciate the time and effort Rosso put into his post and explaining how the stats work, I just have reservations about the theory behind it. I just find it simply impossible to rate players while not comparing them whatsoever. Using other sets as a reference point is very helpful, for example I used the Jimmy Armfield set here as a basis for my Eric Caldow set. Actually, to be honest I don’t see the problem with comparing players at all. If we give everyone that can score as many goals as Baggio 94+ SA, then we’ll have a lot of players with those numbers. I mean, look at the Bologna set, it has 5 red and 6 orange values. If those were a fair representation of his ability, then he would have scored 50 goals and got 25 assists that season... If you want to play a game where about 50 people all have red shooting stats, fair enough, but I think we should at least try and balance them a bit instead of making every player an overpowered monster like the Bologna set here.

Author:	TheGreatRossonero [ Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Roberto BAGGIO 1990-1994 \| 1997-1998 \| 2000-2004
Don't worry Stuart, but i've to explain some things that you're misunderstanding. 1. No one is saying that this set has right values, there's a reason why mods move this player to this section. 2. We're against the arguments used to make the changes, use that ladder thing it's just not right. Have you take in count that beside that this type of players can have this high values, there's also something called Condition and Consistency that affect the player's performance. I can have a player with let say, 5 reds like Owen, but he's on grey or blue arrow. He won't capable of use his 5 reds properly, the same happens here. SA isn't the only stat that can make a player turn into a top tier goalscorer, try to understand that many stats can lead a player to become one, like; HEA, RES, TMW, JUM, ATT.

Author:	El Capo [ Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Roberto BAGGIO 1990-1994 \| 1997-1998 \| 2000-2004
I doubt he'll be a "overpowered" monster with that puny BB (which should be even lower). Baggio was all about technique, no physical prowess (which ingame is key) like the others who were mentioned (except from Zico of course). TheGreatRossonero wrote: 1. No one is saying that this set has right values, there's a reason why mods move this player to this section. The original owner of the last 2 sets already update them, guess those new stats weren't good enough here.

Pes Miti del Calcio http://pesmitidelcalcio.com/

Roberto BAGGIO 1992-1994 \| 1997-1999 \| 2001-2004 http://pesmitidelcalcio.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=436	Page 3 of 3

Author:	artemds [ Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:01 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Roberto BAGGIO 1990-1994 \| 1997-1998 \| 2000-2004
StuartBannigan wrote: I appreciate the time and effort Rosso put into his post and explaining how the stats work, I just have reservations about the theory behind it. I just find it simply impossible to rate players while not comparing them whatsoever. Using other sets as a reference point is very helpful, for example I used the Jimmy Armfield set here as a basis for my Eric Caldow set. Actually, to be honest I don’t see the problem with comparing players at all. If we give everyone that can score as many goals as Baggio 94+ SA, then we’ll have a lot of players with those numbers. I mean, look at the Bologna set, it has 5 red and 6 orange values. If those were a fair representation of his ability, then he would have scored 50 goals and got 25 assists that season... If you want to play a game where about 50 people all have red shooting stats, fair enough, but I think we should at least try and balance them a bit instead of making every player an overpowered monster like the Bologna set here. Agreed. This about rating players, if you don't compare or use ladders how you can make a realistic player? For example is a mistake giving red values to a player who had two good years because he wasn't persistent enough or give 95 in SA because you feel it ... or give red values in tech to a player in 50's or 60's and don't give it to a player of 70's because the last one "had more time to stop the ball without pressure" so in 50's and 60's exist more pressure in game than in 70?? at the end this is about numbers and how this abilities are constantly and fairly rated in numbers by an objetive way, so why people should'nt use ladders if is a good way to make players more realist?

Author:	TheGreatRossonero [ Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Roberto BAGGIO 1990-1994 \| 1997-1998 \| 2000-2004
Btw @El Capo, current sets in first post are the ones update by Naka?, or they should been update. StuartBannigan wrote: Actually, to be honest I don’t see the problem with comparing players at all. If we give everyone that can score as many goals as Baggio 94+ SA, then we’ll have a lot of players with those numbers. I mean, look at the Bologna set, it has 5 red and 6 orange values. If those were a fair representation of his ability, then he would have scored 50 goals and got 25 assists that season... If you want to play a game where about 50 people all have red shooting stats, fair enough, but I think we should at least try and balance them a bit instead of making every player an overpowered monster like the Bologna set here. I didn't see this part of your post, it looks like a good point to discuss, the main thing here it's that SA isn't related to how many goals a player can score, Konami describe the ability as how a player can place the ball when he has to shoot, but before we need to understand that even the player has 95 in SA but he's completly average in important stats as ATT, AGG, ST, SP, DA, TS, etc he won't be able to have a decent chance to score, aside that COND/CONS are key stats in game, becuase a player with 8 or 7 in these stats would be always on red arrows making him almost a god in game even with lame stats. I don't see a problem with players getting high values in shooting stats, do you remember back in Pes 5 or 6 Konami was rating people there, you'll find at least 20 players with high values in SA/SP/SP and those games were only maded based in only one season, they you'll start to think, that probably we'd have more than 20 guys if we want to create an OF with all the greatest players of all and not just one season. My final advice here would be that, users around should start to see/make sets as whole were all stats work togheter

Author:	Interista93 [ Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Roberto BAGGIO 1990-1994 \| 1997-1998 \| 2000-2004
Premising that you all gave a lot of exhausting suggestions, I'd like to give some thoughts too. He had a 0,59 scoring between 1990 and 1994, 0,7 in 1997-98 and 0,45 between 2000 and 2004. This considered I'd give him SA 95 for Bologna's set, 94 for Juventus is ok but for Brescia's set I'd give 92-93 max. He was a better scorer and more effective in attack at Juventus than he was at Brescia, so I'd give him 91 in ATT for Juventus and 90 for Brescia. About Condition: he played for Brescia an average of matches way lower than he did for Juventus so I'd give him COND 6 in the third set just like he had in the second one. Look in these two videos https://youtu.be/5pAGBAOB0vw and https://youtu.be/MRlXm3KVKb4 how superb his dribbling and technique were at Juventus and his shots which I'd say weren't that "weak" to deserve only 80. I'd go for 97 in both DA and TEC and 82 for SP. Here's another video https://youtu.be/hU9esd1dC7Q to have an impression of him at Bologna. And here https://youtu.be/RqEDJmGu-VU are the highlights of Baggio at Brescia. For a better analysis of his goals here https://youtu.be/EO5QFW6DEHI and here https://youtu.be/1oJzAVpVcGo are all his goals in Serie A for Juventus, here https://youtu.be/q3VQX7WqhgM those for Bologna and here https://youtu.be/WEEmGxG_8O4 all those for Brescia. By the way, in these last videos I see he scored 3-4 goals with the head in over 100 in total for Juventus, 1 for Bologna and 2 (almost 3) for Brescia. I'd honestly give him low 70s in HEA in all sets.

Page 3 of 3	All times are UTC
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group https://www.phpbb.com/