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 Roberto BAGGIO 1990-1994 | 1997-1998 | 2000-2004 
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Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:31 pm
Posts: 635
Name: Roberto Baggio

Nickname: "Il Divin Codino"


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Country: :ITA: Italy
Club: Juventus F.C.
Number: 10
Position: *SS, CF, AMF
Side: RF/BS
Age: 23-27 years (18/02/1967)
Era: 1990-1994

Height: 174 cm
Weight: 72 kg

Attack: 90
Defence: 44
Balance: 78
Stamina: 82
Top Speed: 81
Acceleration: 85
Response: 85
Agility: 86
Dribble Accuracy: 96
Dribble Speed: 88
Short Pass Accuracy: 86
Short Pass Speed: 80
Long Pass Accuracy: 87
Long Pass Speed: 78
Shot Accuracy: 94
Shot Power: 80
Shot Technique: 90
Free Kick Accuracy: 93
Curling: 96
Header: 77
Jump: 76
Technique: 96
Aggression: 86
Mentality: 77
Goalkeeper Skills: 50
Team Work: 80

Injury Tolerance: B
Condition: 7
Weak Foot Accuracy: 7
Weak Foot Frequency: 6
Consistency: 7
Growth type: Standard

CARDS:
P10 - Incisive Run
P15 - Free Roaming
S02 - Passer
S03 - 1-on-1 Finish
S04 - PK Taker
S05 - 1-touch Play
S06 - Outside curve
S15 - Shoulder Feint Skills
S16 - Roulette Skills
S20 - Flicking Skills
S21 - Step On Skills

SPECIAL ABILITIES: Dribbling - Passing - 1-1 Scoring - Penalties - 1-Touch Pass - Outside

Attack/Defence Awareness Card: Attack Minded

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STATS BY NAKAYAMA#9

Name: Roberto Baggio

Nickname: "Il Divin Codino"


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Country: :ITA: Italy
Club: Bologna
Numbers: 10 | 18
Position: *SS, CF, AMF
Side: RF/BS
Age: 30-31 years (18/02/1967)
Era: 1997-1998

Height: 174 cm
Weight: 72 kg

Attack: 93
Defence: 44
Balance: 76
Stamina: 77
Top Speed: 78
Acceleration: 83
Response: 85
Agility: 84
Dribble Accuracy: 96
Dribble Speed: 82
Short Pass Accuracy: 93
Short Pass Speed: 79
Long Pass Accuracy: 90
Long Pass Speed: 78
Shot Accuracy: 96
Shot Power: 79
Shot Technique: 95
Free Kick Accuracy: 94
Curling: 96
Header: 78
Jump: 71
Technique: 97
Aggression: 82
Mentality: 90
Goalkeeper Skills: 50
Team Work: 90

Injury Tolerance: B
Condition: 6
Weak Foot Accuracy: 7
Weak Foot Frequency: 6
Consistency: 7
Growth type: Standard/Lasting

CARDS:
P10: Incisive Run
S02: Passer
S03: 1-on-1 Finish
S04: PK Taker
S05: 1-Touch Play
S06: Outside Curve
S15: Shoulder Feint Skills
S20: Flicking Skills
S21: Step On Skills

SPECIAL ABILITIES: Tactical Dribble - Passing - 1-1 Scoring - Penalties - 1-Touch Pass - Outside

Attack/Defence Awareness Card: Attack Minded


INFO:

His best season ever!-He wasn't maybe that quick like before ,but he became one of the completest offensive players ever and a permanent goalscorer.
In 30 matches for Bologna in the season 1997/98 he scored 22 goals and got back his place in the Italian national team for the 1998 world cup in France.


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STATS BY NAKAYAMA#9

Name: Roberto Baggio

Nickname: "Il Divin Codino"


Image

Country: :ITA: Italy
Club: Brescia
Number: 10
Position: *SS, AMF
Side: RF/BS
Age: 33-37 years (18/02/1967)
Era: 2000-2004

Height: 174 cm
Weight: 72 kg

Attack: 91
Defence: 44
Balance: 74
Stamina: 75
Top Speed: 74
Acceleration: 77
Response: 85
Agility: 82
Dribble Accuracy: 96
Dribble Speed: 79
Short Pass Accuracy: 95
Short Pass Speed: 77
Long Pass Accuracy: 90
Long Pass Speed: 74
Shot Accuracy: 94
Shot Power: 77
Shot Technique: 95
Free Kick Accuracy: 94
Curling: 96
Header: 74
Jump: 67
Technique: 97
Aggression: 77
Mentality: 92
Goalkeeper Skills: 50
Team Work: 93

Injury Tolerance: C
Condition: 7
Weak Foot Accuracy: 7
Weak Foot Frequency: 6
Consistency: 8
Growth type: Standard/Lasting

CARDS:
P10: Incisive Run
S02: Passer
S03: 1-on-1 Finish
S04: PK Taker
S05: 1-Touch Play
S06: Outside Curve
S15: Shoulder Feint Skills
S20: Flicking Skills
S21: Step On Skills

SPECIAL ABILITIES: Tactical Dribble - Playmaking - Passing - 1-1 Scoring - Penalties - 1-Touch Pass - Outside

Attack/Defence Awareness Card: Attack Minded


Sat Mar 16, 2013 4:30 pm
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Location: Argentina
Only few players have 99 in DA (for me) Maradona , Messi. After that is very difficult to rated others , maradona no have such DS he only need 93-96. BAGGIO only need 95-97


Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:02 pm
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Posts: 2378
Location: Aragua De Barcelona, Venezuela
Simcav wrote:

No, old sets are here if they are good, and unless there are no more suggestions, the stats will remain the same.
I don't like that you're updating old stats without giving explanation. Why DA from 96 to 98? Why TEC from 97 to 98 and 99? Why now there are almost 10 points of difference between MEN&TMW from 1997-1998 to 2000-2004? Why ATT in 1997-1998 is now at 96?
Please give explanation when you update a player. No, it's better if you don't update them at all, before asking suggestions from the other members.
MagicDip gave you new sets? Ok, that's fine, why don't you post them on the reply, instead of updating the previous ones? Maybe the other members don't agree with your idea or MagicDip's or Nakayama's or anyone else's. So, probably, we can find a compromise, or if everyone agrees, you can update. But, before updating, post your sets in the reply.


This was the explanation that he gave me prior the update:

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nakayama#9 wrote:
Maybe DA and TECH 98 or just TEC in 99, or even 99 at both would do better for him, should be tested I think , I never had the impression that hes overpowerd with these stats in contrary I always thought hes not entirely as good as he should be , usually I blamed it on low BB , but Baggio was a very delicate player who relied almost entirely on technique nontheless I think when I compare him to Del Piero BB could get up probably.
Baggio didn't do step overs , elasticos and these things so I would eventually removed *Dribbling and only leaving T-Dribbling just as Konami does but with even higher DA could be fitting .


MagicDip wrote:
You're right about T-Dribble instead of Dribbling.

. If I take in account he didn't play at 100% of his physical capacities since his early knee injury (that is to say almost from the start), then I dare to rank him higher than Maradona. Someone like Diego was both a physical and technical beast at his peak, and when he started to lose his physical edge he became "average" (of course average is relative with that kinda talent but you know what I mean), Pelé, Cruijff, Di Stéfano, Ronaldo etc were all physical beast as well, Baggio is more like Platini (but a Platini with more injuries), he never had a physical edge over the competition, but 1/ he was so smart and 2/Technically so great that he could built a tremendous carreer in the hardest Serie A ever just by using these two assets. I have never seen that after and I doubt I have seen that before too, not a so long and great carreer played in one leg. He has my respect for ever for that.
So, yes, I don't see anyone in the contemporary era (except Zidane) that could challenge him in technical attributes.


nakayama#9 wrote:
Tested him with DA / TECH 99 now and I must say that I have no real complains..

The more and more I see and read about Roberto Baggio, the more I believe hes an alien , thats one of the reasons his MEN is hard to rate , never has been a leader , never wanted to excpet maybe when he was at Brescia , yet despite not being the fittest player ( a heavy smoker for example ) he would have the coolness to save the day in the last seconds of the game.


Like i've said before, if you guys are still not conviced, you can easily reedit the first post..

Saeta wrote:
@ Capo: Yes, but the original set already had an orange attack value. Thus his ability to create dangerous situations was at a world class level. But 96 is just too much for him, especially since players like Zico and Platini don't even have orange ATT values although being not only way more prolific goalscorers but also better offensive players in general than Baggio had ever been. :?


I have Zico in 94 and 96 for Platini, does this help?..

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Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:17 pm
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Posts: 1547
Simcav wrote:
El Capo wrote:
The old sets are there if people wants to keep them, i'm just updating the sets made by this former member since MagicDip have gave me the updated version of this stats made by, worth the redundancy, Naka..


No, old sets are here if they are good, and unless there are no more suggestions, the stats will remain the same.
I don't like that you're updating old stats without giving explanation. Why DA from 96 to 98? Why TEC from 97 to 98 and 99? Why now there are almost 10 points of difference between MEN&TMW from 1997-1998 to 2000-2004? Why ATT in 1997-1998 is now at 96?
Please give explanation when you update a player. No, it's better if you don't update them at all, before asking suggestions from the other members.
MagicDip gave you new sets? Ok, that's fine, why don't you post them on the reply, instead of updating the previous ones? Maybe the other members don't agree with your idea or MagicDip's or Nakayama's or anyone else's. So, probably, we can find a compromise, or if everyone agrees, you can update. But, before updating, post your sets in the reply.

I absolutely agree here. Those changes should be redone, especially ATT 96 is clearly overrated..


Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:53 pm
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Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:34 pm
Posts: 2114
Again, it's not because of the numbers of Baggio or anyone else, it's just that we need, we have to, we have the right to know the explanation for the numbers; you just can't edit a post without bringing info about the changings.
If you want to have Zico on 94, Platini on 96, Nocerino on 99 you have the right to do it. But on this forum we need to discuss when we change something, and to try to find the number we like the most. Baggio with 96 in ATT is unsustainable, like when on PSD they had Iniesta with TS 75 and ACC 93. I'll continue to have my Zidane with TMW in orange range, even if here he will be on white value, but I discuss it and I won't change this value on the forum just because I like it most.
Always here we took info, we supported our changes with examples, videos, written texts... BEFORE updating the stats, so that everyone could give his opinion. It's just a common unwritten rule here.

Talking about Baggio, I cannot accept some values, as I can see other members agree with me, so we need to change them. You can continue having him on the values do you want, but this is not your forum, it's the forum of everyone here, yours too. Your personal forum is your personal PES.
I'm writing this because last week we need 19 replies to convince you to change some (really wrong) values of Radamel Falcao, and still he is overrated because you just decrease two terms.


Tue Jul 19, 2016 7:50 pm
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Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:45 pm
Posts: 81
The main reasons why I am not very happy with these two new sets (apart from this insane ATT value of 96) are the following.

First of all, now there is a huge gap between what should be prime Baggio and his later years. Yes, the Bologna season may be the best of his career but does that solely justify a raise from 96 to 98 in both of his key abilities (in his last set there is even a three point gap in technique, now)? I don't think so. I just don't consider his DA in his later years fundamentally superior to the period between 1990-94.

The second problem I have with these sets is that now, he is on the same level in DA as Maradona. And this is simply unjustified, imo. One can argue whether Maradona deserves DA 99 or not (which he does, imo, although I'm aware of the fact that Best was still an inch ahead of him in this aspect, possibly) but Baggio must not have an equal or even higher value than him. Don't get me wrong: Baggio was brillant but I've never seen him doing dribblings the way Maradona and Best could do: Those dribblings when they literally ran into a wall of defenders and still managed to get through, somehow. And as Gurkenjoe stated, I'm not sure whether a two point gap between Baggio and Cruyff is reasonable. Garrincha could also be problematic since he has "only" DA 97.


Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:11 am
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Location: In a place on the center-south of Chile
This sets like me much.
I have some suggest for him: the TECH for all sets could be 98. Baggio is one of a best of history in this.
DA 98 in the first set and the second. Baggio was magical player. For the 3°... 97
The ATT: 92-93 in the first. 95 in the second and the third is ok.

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Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:12 pm
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Location: Argentina
The TEC in Brescia is overrated , 99 suits better in Bologna or juve , also 95 is a good value to show who good is his Vision , also is named part of the three betters players in Italy


Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:00 pm
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I honestly fail to see why he should be on red value in ATT if Cruyff only has 92 for ATT or Meazza only has 90 there.. I don't think he deserves more than 93 there (like it was before)..
Same for DA or TEC, those old values were far more realistic (especially DA on level of Littbarski is IMO not deserved)..


Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:31 pm
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Location: In a place on the center-south of Chile
gurkenjoe93 wrote:
I honestly fail to see why he should be on red value in ATT if Cruyff only has 92 for ATT or Meazza only has 90 there.. I don't think he deserves more than 93 there (like it was before)..
Same for DA or TEC, those old values were far more realistic (especially DA on level of Littbarski is IMO not deserved)..

Cryuff or Meazza deserves a better attack...

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Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:43 pm
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As members didn't agree with those changes that were done without asking anybody else, I've redone those changes. There are things that need to be changed but as Simcav said, those changes should be discussed..


Thu Jul 21, 2016 2:48 pm
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what about a set for his fiore days? :) :)


Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:59 am
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valdivia10 wrote:
what about a set for his fiore days? :) :)


I'm working on he's set for that era , i expect publish soon....


Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:46 pm
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Maybe it's just me but SA seems overrated for every set, he was never that prolific, partly due to the position he played, but it just looks wrong for him to be on a level with Eusébio and Pelé, every set above Romário in Barcelona, and a full 5 points above Zico in his Bologna set.


Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:30 pm
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Maybe they used the Owen´s criteria to gave him those numbers in SA. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:43 pm
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Guys guys, you aren't really seen all the picture here regarding statmaking, I and some people here, we aren't working anymore with ladders. that was and it is the most wrong way to work with the game.

thoughts like these should be erased from the guidelines to work in the forum and in general.

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We're looking forward to make realistic and unique sets, months ago in other place i pull out a suggestion that it was related to CR7's sets and how limit him and make him look and behave the most close to his real life counterpart in game.

this were my suggestions, this was a discussion between me and El Capo, he also wasn't sure about the values that i dropped but at the end he realize that it was a reason behind all the numbers.

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The thing was drop cristiano's ds, to something like green or even white values, of course any person that isn't noticed of how we're triying to work, will said something like “oh 77 that's so low, he is on par with Rui Costa, he isn't that slow, cristiano can run fast in counter attacks, that's wrong". But just look at this, there's a goal behind all this and the best of all is that it works perfectly in game.


Values are given because, all the stats work toghether to reach a goal, make realistic and unique sets, and sometimes we take probably not usual methods to archieve that. Cristiano's set is an example of that, he's still is one hell of a player and also have the tools to be a decent dribbler in game but at the same time he isn't just another typical winger who can dribble everybody on his side, thing that he hasn't been for so long.

Regarding Owen, i already say all in his own thread, but there's no problem if i have to explain again each value or at least the more relevant, just for the sake of the discussion.

Regarding att, i've already sayed all. But let see his, speed stats, he deserve all the numbers that i gave him, he was a truly speed monster, but then we came to see his da and ds values, owen wasn't a technical player by any mean but the same he was decent on the ball, he somehow still was capable to show time from time decent ball controls, then his ds it sitted in 83, again people would say, owen was fast, he was a speed demon, he can run long distances with the ball, he's worth of orange material there. yeah he was fast, but in any point he was capable to put that speed into his da, if you give him 83 da and 90 ds, at some point he would look like a messi-esque player. And for sure he isn't like messi, then what can we do with him?, easy i test several values for ds taking in count that TS boost ds. And 83 was the value that i like most, because it doesn't make him behave like a top tier dribbler but at the same time he's capable to do decent things with the ball, close to what he was in real life.

Then the most talked topic, his shooting combo, i take those values because they were the right ones to emulate him. It you look his accuracy % and then you watch his matches, you'll find that he haved a ridiculous accuracy and technique when it comes to place the ball in the cornes of the net and when he connects properly with his shoot under pressure or/and in awkward positions, i taked his sp so low, because even if he was able to pull out time from time rockets from his boot, i give him that value because he was more to prone to shoot with finesse, looking accuracy, obviusly there are surely better shooters than him. But those players are (will be) rated much better overall than him, my henry's set (02/05) has SA 96 SP 87 ST 94 and he is a better finisher than owen, it's lame try to explain that if you analyze a little bit you'll realize that there's reason behind.

I'll take my own work just like an example, someone can come and said how and X player( a random defender in this case with 93 in DEF) is rated much better than let say, Picchi, who i rate with DEF 91, but i give that values because it works with the others values that he has, like TMW, RES, ACC and he is so different that this X player.

Would be great, if the staff take this suggestion, to make a rule where we ban to work with statements that try to use ladders, that imo are just wrong. If we want to do a serious revamp, we can't work like that anymore. Btw we can't compare player that are both in this section, because soon or later they will be update, so there isn't any sense in compare something that will change eventually.

JeanMarc say this 2 years ago in Kaka's thread.

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and tbh this can be fixed, how?, well this ladder thing has been destroying PES community because at the end people was fulling players with high values, not given they that individuality that they need, all the players have weaknesses and strenghs and we have to be compromise to give they what they deserve and need to make a decent database. Because otherwise we'll still strugging with this problem and i found this update project a nice chance to make a decent database with the effort of all the users and staff members.


Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:35 pm
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